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SMS Text to BT landline

  • 11 November 2018
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Userlevel 2
@iD Mobile
Any thoughts on this? Has this been escalated to Three? -especially given BT's assertion that Three contracted AQL in 2009.
Userlevel 2
@Phil @iD Mobile
To add a bit of Christmas cheer. I had another chat with ID again yesterday - I wouldn't have posted it apart from the fact that I thought the unintentional humour of it would appeal to some here.
See if you can spot what made me smile - a sort of 'Where's Wally' test.
Info: We've received your chat request. An agent will be with you shortly.
Info: You're chatting with Shameega.
Shameega: Hi Stephen, how can I help you today?

You: Apparently you have an update for issue 103688747.
Shameega: I'd be happy to look into this for you.

>

Shameega: Stephen, our technical team has provided us with a link for the discussion via the iD Community forum.
https://community.idmobile.co.uk/ask-a-question-18/sms-text-to-bt-landline-29486#post33933
You: What? I thought you were going to escalate the issue to Three so Three could trace a text and prove whether they were passing it to AQL or BT?
Shameega: Stephen, we have advised previously that we are unable to do this.
You: I KNOW that ID are unable to do it, BUT THree can - that was the point surely of the last conversation?
Shameega: We have escalated it that way as well, as all escalation go through Three.
You: OK - then round in circles. I send texts from my mobile to my landline. The text should be delivered as text, but it isn't - it is delivered as voice via a company called AQL. AQL since 2009 have a contract with Three to provide that text-to-speech service. All other texts from other sources apart from Three come through as text perfectly ok to my landline. Why is Three then passing my texts to AQL for delivery as voice?
Shameega: Stephen, does anyone else in your home also experience this issue?
You: What? Do you actually understand the problem at all? Of course other experience it. ANY texts from the Three network come through to the landline as voice and not text.
You: You even said that you had the same issue when investigating this ealier. One of you tech team apparaently texted my landline and got an acknowledgement saying that the text had been delivered as voice./ Check back over the conversations.
Shameega: Stephen, the only time we tried texting you, we got the following feedback:

'We tested it here. Sent text from iD number to this number ********
and it successfully delivered and received the confirmation text that 'Text to Speech message to ******** has been delivered''

When have we confirmed that we experienced this issue?
You: Have you read your owne message above? Doesn't it say - and i Quote: '.... the confirmation text that 'Text to Speech message to ******** has been delivered''...' - Isn't that saying that a text has been delivered as speech?
Shameega: I'll be right with you.
You: For some reason you are NOT passing the text to BT for delivery as text, but you are passing the text to AQL fore de;livery as voice (Speech). That is the problem. You acknowledge you have the problem (ie you quote the text you get back to me as proof of delivery) - but you fail to understand that the text should be delivered as text.
Shameega: Stephen, we are not failing to understand the issue. We have done numerous investigations about this issue.

The feedback we received the second time was 'If the customer has a landline phone that can receive SMS then they would need to review this with BT.'

The third time we were advised on the following: 'This not something we can check. This service belongs to BT and customer need to check with them.

In this case nothing we can help to customer.'
Shameega: We were not able to locate this issue because iD does not send text to a landline, it will revert to a voice message. It can only revert to a text via BT themselves.
Shameega: We have also investigated the issue and found that it is not only iD having the problem with BT.
You: This is insane. Three have a contract with AQL to provide text-to-speech. You agree that texts from Three are being delivered as speech. That is then nothing to do with BT. YOU have the contract with AQL NOT BT. You are passing the text to AQL for delivery NOT BT.
You: But the text should simply be delivered as text. Three is making the decision (for some reason) to pass the text to AQL for delivery as speech. Why are Three passing the text to AQL?
Shameega: Thanks for being so patient. I'll be with you shortly.
Info: The chat transcript will be sent to: ******** at the end of your chat.
Shameega: Thank you for your patience Stephen.
Stephen, I have advised on all the information that we have received and we were advised that there is nothing we can do further with regards to this. If there was anything I could do to change this situation or resolve this matter but we have tried everything on our end.
You: Can you confirm that Three has a contract wioh AQL for AQL to provide text-to-speech services?
Shameega: Thanks for being so patient. I'll be with you shortly.
You: OK
Shameega: Thanks for waiting. I'll be with you in just a moment.
Shameega: Thank you for your patience. Stephen, we do not have information about the AQL service you are referring to.
You: So you are categorically saying that Three does NOT have a contract with Three to provide text-to-speech services?
You: ...apologies that should read '....Three does NOT have a contract with AQL....'
Shameega: Stephen, although we route through the Three network. I am unable to confirm which services they use, please keep in mind that they are still a network on their own.
You: Am I going mad? I know that Three provide your network. This has been an issue with how Three deliver texts to landlines. You keep telling me it's not your issue - and I keep telling you it's a problem with Three - hence why I keep making sure that you're escalating this to Three. So I repeat (and you need to ask Three this) does Three have a contract with AQL to provide text-to-speech services or not?
You: I can't talk to Three - I do not have a contract with Three - I have a contract with ID. So you are my point of contact. If Three has an issue it needs to be passed to them for them to resolve.
Shameega: Stephen, I am going to call Three directly to confirm this.
You: OK
Shameega: Thanks for being so patient. I'll be with you shortly.
You: OK
Shameega: Stephen, it might take a while because they have high call volumes at the moment.
You: OK
Shameega: Thanks for waiting. I'll be with you in just a moment.
You: ok
Shameega: Stephen, Three is investigating this on their end as well because they are not aware of the AQL service.
You: What does that mean? Will you get back to me and let me know? And why on earth, given that this issue was escalated to Three weeks ago, wasn't this checked before now?
You: How can you have been certain that the issue wasn't yours/Three's without actually investigating what the problem was?
Shameega: Stephen, we investigated this with Three, we have advised there is nothing we can do. According to the agents I spoke to, Three is not aware of the AQL system on their end. They do not use this service, I am not sure who has given BT this information but Three use their own system.
You: So Three is delivering the text as speech?
You: And can you confirm that Three categorically does NOT use AQL services for delivering text-as-speech? I am not sure just saying that 'Three is unaware' is good enough.
Shameega: Stephen, they do not use AQL.
You: The problem is that I am getting text-as-speech from AQL and someone is passing the text to them - it isn't me doing that.
You: Can you then get a 'deadlock' letter to me so I can escalate this via Ofcom?
Shameega: Please bear with me while I arrange this for you.
You: OK
Shameega: I'll be right with you.
You: OK
Shameega: Thanks for being so patient. I'll be with you shortly.
You: OK
Shameega: Thank you for your patience. I have requested for a Deadlock letter to be sent, the investigations and request does take 7 working days Stephen.
You: OK - I'll wait to hear from you.


...and if it's not only Three having this issue with BT - where again is the evidence of who else is having the problem? Does EE, Vodafone, O2? I had my family text me and get texts perfectly ok from EE and Vodafone and text from landline (BT) come through ok. So instead of talking in bland general terms can someone please provide the hard detail?
Ho Ho Ho........t
Userlevel 2
@Phil
OK - asked for a dealock letter from ID - nothing so far.

This is two months in - for something that should have taken a few minutes to resolve - and worst of all, not one of the parties involved has provided proof of what they're saying - ALL the parties simply point at the others and say '... it's their fault...' - but with nothing to back up what they're saying.

I have tried ID. I have tried via AQL. I have tried with Three direct and then via Resolva. I have tried BT direct. I have tried BT via forums.

I have now escalated this to the Ombudsman - so it's now a case of waiting to see what they can do.

Isn't there anyone who actually does support anymore? Has it all become customer self help forums, Tweets and Facebook nonsense without any real substance?
Userlevel 2
@Phil @iD Mobile

There was a thread with this title that appears to have been closed. Any ideas as to why it was closed for comment as the issue itself is still active?
Userlevel 2
@Phil @iD Mobile

I have been trying to get this sorted via Resolver/Three, but after 6 weeks have just received the reply below. The reply below was in response to my pointing out that Three say on http://support.three.co.uk/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBISAPI.DLL?Command=New,Kb=Mobile,Ts=Mobile,T=Article,varset_cat=callsemails,varset_subcat=3788,Case=obj(3173)
'.....You can send text messages to other mobile phones or landlines. Some landline phones display text messages as they would on a mobile phone, but for those that don't we convert your text message into a voice message so that it can be listened to...'

Their response on Resolver was:
'...The information provided on out website is pertaining to our customers and its device specfic and depends on the device you're using.
The device you're using is not provided by Three hence I'd request you to contact your phone service provider....'

So, here I am again asking you (iD) - why are texts from my mobile to my text enabled landline being delivered as speech via AQL in Leeds rather than text?
Userlevel 6
Badge +6
Hello @steveTu,

We are sorry that your question was closed for comment, we understand it is still an ongoing issue for you.

Having looked at the response you received from Three via Resolver, it appears they may be referring to your service provider BT rather than iD. However as you have been unable to resolve this issue so far we want to try and help as best as we can.

If you could please private message us with the specific BT handset model you are using and your home telephone number (if this number is different to the one you have provided as a landline contract before). We would like this information, so we can send some test messages to your landline. I appreciate you may have been sent test messages before however for our investigation we would like to produce some recent specific examples that we will take to Three.

When we send the test messages, all we’d like you to do is confirm back to us how they were relayed to you, i.e.. speech or text and at what time.

Once we have received this information we will work with Three and come back to you once we have a further update for you.

Many thanks
Userlevel 2
@Mohammed
Three may be referring to BT, but I don't think that's the case given the context. The sentence is referring to the fact that I'm not directly contracted with Three and using one of their phones isn't it? So when they say in the same sentence '...contact your phone service provider..' it would imply to me that they're referring to the mobile provider. But, that's irrelevant anyway - as this has been a three way chat since November in as much as I've been talking to iD, Three and BT to try to get one of you to PROVE who is at fault (so I have been talking to BT about this as well anyway) - a simple trace of a text to my landline should prove who passes the text to AQL for delivery as speech. AQL's flowchart states that it's the originating network that performs the check to see if the destination is text enabled - so that wiuld imply iD/Three are the culprit.
You say: '...I appreciate you may have been sent test messages before however for our investigation we would like to produce some recent specific examples that we will take to Three.

When we send the test messages, all we’d like you to do is confirm back to us how they were relayed to you, i.e.. speech or text and at what time. ...'

You can refer back to Page 1 of this thread - to the posts just before where @Phil gets involved. iD have already sent texts to my landline from a 'Three' mobile and they got the same result - ie they received an acknowledgement that their text had been delivered as speech. They then appeared to take that acknowledgement as proof that the text had been delivered ok - so there wasn't a problem! They could not see that the fact that they got that acknowledgement WAS the problem. Normally you do not get acknowledgements when sending texts do you?

So you have already been down that route on multiple occasions (ie sending texts to my landline) nearly two months ago - I tried from my phone yesterday and the problem still exists. So you can try again if you like (and yes, my landline is the number you have - and the phone model is a Panasonic KX-TG8220 text enabled phone) - but unless someone actually investigates this and is will to prove what they're saying, rather than just pointing at one of the other parties and saying '...it's their fault...' then you're just going round in circles.

PS BT initially blamed the handset - so I contacted Panasonic and they have stated that the issue is not in the handset (the handset receives texts perfectly ok from other networks apart from Three). If you want to see the transcript of the Panasonic 'chat' let me know and I'll post it.
Userlevel 2
@Mohammed
I have just received 4 test text messages.
Tests 1-3 came through as text (I can provide mobile numbers if you need)
Test 4 came through from AQL on 03333440000 as speech
Userlevel 6
Badge +6
Hello @steveTu,

Thanks for confirming that.
If we need the mobile number, we will request this later.

Can you confirm for us the times they were received?

Like so:
Test 1 - Text - TIME
Test 2 - Text - TIME
Test 3 - Text - TIME
Test 4 - SPEECH - TIME

Once we have this information, we will continue to investigate with Three UK.

Mohammed
Userlevel 2
@Mohammed
The receipt times:
Test1 - 16:13
Test2 - 16:13
Test3 - 16:14

Test4 - 16:15
Userlevel 6
Badge +6
Hi @steveTu,

Thank you for that information. We are liaising with Three for this issue and we will have it further investigated and we'll be back in touch soon.

Ryan
Userlevel 2
@Mohammed @Ryan

Any update on this?
Userlevel 6
Badge +6
@Mohammed @Ryan

Any update on this?


Hello @SteveTu

We have not forgotten about you and thank you for your patience while we look into this for you. We are currently liaising with Three to try and get a final answer for you in relation as to why this is happening. We will come back to you as soon as we have a response.

Many thanks
Userlevel 2
@Mohammed @Ryan

It's been nearly two weeks since the 'test' texts - and this whole issue has been going on for circa 3 months. So there has been plenty of time (and opportunity) to have performed traces of the texts to see who is at fault. I have personally requested traces be done over the past few months.

So are Three passing the texts to AQL for delivery as voice (and if so, why?) or are they passing the texts to BT for delivery?
Userlevel 5
Badge +6
Hi @steveTu

Mohammed isn't in today for me to poke him for an update on this, though I know he is still on the case with this one.

Expect to hear more from him by Monday/ Tuesday of next week here.
Userlevel 2
@Ryan @Mohammed
Just received another 'Test' message - it came through as voice from 03333440000 at 10:04.
Userlevel 6
Badge +6
Hello @steveTu,

Thanks for confirming that.

We are still looking into this and I will pass on the update to the Team. We'll use this in our ongoing investigation with Three to continue with the progress on this investigations. Thank you for your continued patience and apologies for the time it's taken thus far to get a resolution. We can assure you that we're working with Three UK to resolve this as soon as possible.

Mohammed
Userlevel 2
@Ryan @Mohammed
I'm not sure that I follow the complexity of the issue. Surely it is possible to trace a text (and thereby initially prove beyond a doubt that it is Three perfoming the check?)? And if the AQL flowchart is to be believed (and so far no reason why not), then some interface code is performing a check to see if my landline is text enabled. Isn't then a simple case of following how that interface performs that check? I doubt if the interface is physically checking my landline phone - so presumably there's a database somewhere that holds the fact that my landline is text enabled - and given that other networks are managing texts to my landline ok - isn't it likely that Three have either a simple bug in that interface OR they're using the wrong database to validate against?
Userlevel 6
Badge +6
Hi @SteveTu

The review of your issue is currently with Three. We are trying to find out as much information as possible for you before we come back to you with an answer. We believe there may be an issue with how Three process these messages but we do not want to confirm this until we have a definitive answer.

We are hoping Three can fix this issue and so that is why we are arranging subsequent test messages that may come to you. Once we have a response from them we will update you.

Ryan
Userlevel 2
@Ryan @Mohammed

I sincerely appreciate that you're trying to help.
My frustration stems from the fact that this issue is heading towards being 4 months old and up until 20+ days ago, iD and Three denied all responsibility. I still haven't seen anywhere here where iD (Three) have actually said it is them passing the text to AQL. So have Three now acknowledged that it is them passing the text to AQL for delivery as speech?
Userlevel 6
Badge +6
@Ryan @Mohammed

I sincerely appreciate that you're trying to help.
My frustration stems from the fact that this issue is heading towards being 4 months old and up until 20+ days ago, iD and Three denied all responsibility. I still haven't seen anywhere here where iD (Three) have actually said it is them passing the text to AQL. So have Three now acknowledged that it is them passing the text to AQL for delivery as speech?


Hey @steveTu,

We appreciate that you'd like an answer to whether it's Three UK passing the text to AQL this way, however, we're still working with Three UK to get to the bottom of this. Once we have any further information, we will let you know here.

We apologise for the time taken thus far and appreciate your co-operation here.

Mohammed
Userlevel 2
@Ryan @Mohammed

The 'test texts' were a month ago. This issue is now circa 4 months old.

What is happening?
Userlevel 5
Badge +6
Hi Steve.

This is very much still an ongoing matter between ourselves and Three. So whilst unfortunately we don't have news on this just yet, this is still under investigation.

We do very much apologise for how long this has taken to this point though.
Userlevel 2
@Kevin
So you're saying, after 4 months, you still have no idea as to who is responsible for passing the text to AQL for delivery as speech?
Can I ask then what has the last month of tests proven so far? Surely there was no point in performing the tests, unless you could analyse the results? The tests showed that certain texts were being delivered by AQL as voice. What did you learn from that? Who passed the text to AQL for delivery?
Userlevel 6
Badge +6
Hello @steveTu,

I can only but apologise that the matter has been going on for so long. We have been liaising with Three UK regarding this as they are the ones who would arrange for the text to be sent as a text rather than speech. The tests we've completed so far have been on behalf of Three UK so they can analyse the results of these as they continue to work on the issue. We can't provide specifics for what you have requested regarding AQL, as it currently sits with the Three UK's Team for testing and is outside of our TechTeam.

Once we have a response (and fingers crossed a fix for the issue) from Three UK, we'll be sure to provide this update to you here.

Mohammed

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